by itsatrap123 copied from Reddit
This is a throwaway account so as to not tipoff my SO.
We’re both mid thirties, professional, successful, divorced parents. We’re also engaged to be married pretty soon.
We have what I thought to be a wonderful relationship, lots of talking, bonding, straightforward emotional exchanges, no trust issues, and great, frequent sex.
However, and here is where things take a turn, it has recently come to my attention that the frequent sex part of the equation may have been a ruse. Things have been hectic lately, and I had been getting a weird vibe from her, so I point blank asked her a few things about our sex life, and I don’t like what I heard.
She has sex with me quite often out of a feeling of duty.
She has grown attracted to me, but does not find me “inherently attractive”. I’m not her “type”, apparently. What I am, I think, is safe, as her family wouldn’t be too happy about her seriously dating or heaven forbid marrying her “type”.
She says that she is not a night person, and is too tired when we go to bed to be in the mood.
She says she hopes things will improve in a few years when her kids are older, her job is more stable, etc.
Basically, she wants us to “be more flexible” in our sex life and slow down. If she had her way, she’d be happy with maybe a couple times a week.
Anyway, while I appreciate her honesty, this was quite a blow. My ego is bruised, my self confidence is shaken, and I am more than a bit angry and resentful about her hiding this until now.
I love her, obviously, and I don’t want to end our relationship, so I’m here looking for advice.
I’ve already spent a ridiculous amount of money on our wedding, and we are financially intertwined quite thoroughly. She sold her house and moved into mine.
Also, in case it’s relevant, I work a standard 9-5 job at a Fortune 500 company and make twice what she does. Her job has really flexible hours, no absolute time commitments, and doesn’t require as much attention and energy as mine. She doesn’t like to do housework, so we hired a cleaning service. I love to cook, so I do so something like 5 out of 7 days every week. I also do the dishes because I don’t mind, and actually find it relaxing. She tends to do most of the laundry.
Just fyi, but her idea of compromise was that since I am a more high energy type person (and I am, I can go full bore all day on 6 hours of sleep), that I should take over all kid duties at a certain time of the evening (say 9 pm) so she could go sit in the bath, lay in bed watching movies, or whatever else she wanted to do while I put her kids to bed, go over my kids homework, make lunches for the next day, etc. Yes, after working all day, cooking dinner, and then doing all the dishes for a family of 6.
Anyone have any ideas?
intjpua
You are her "provider". She'll find someone else that turns her on to fuck her once you're married. There have been dozens of askreddit posts from guys just like you, only they're at the end rather than the beginning of the story, and their stories are tragic and occasionally horrible (they lose their house, their kids, their friends, and their dignity, while their ex-wife is fucking other men and enjoying the fruits of putting in a few years with the sap).
She loves your money. She loves that you are easy to control and keep in line because you're polite and a Nice Guy. She loves that you take care of her. But she doesn't love you.
At least she was honest enough to reveal her hand before you became hopelessly intertwined. She obviously believes you're really thoroughly hooked on her (and you probably are; if you weren't you wouldn't even have to ask about this situation; you would have ended it long ago).
Just fyi, but her idea of compromise was that since I am a more high energy type person (and I am, I can go full bore all day on 6 hours of sleep), that I should take over all kid duties at a certain time of the evening (say 9 pm) so she could go sit in the bath, lay in bed watching movies, or whatever else she wanted to do while I put her kids to bed, go over my kids homework, make lunches for the next day, etc. Yes, after working all day, cooking dinner, and then doing all the dishes for a family of 6.
She has successfully turned you into her bitch. This made her dramatically less attracted to you. Women hate weak men. And you are being weak at every turn. You don't have to be an asshole, but you do need to stand up for yourself. Doormats are not attractive to anyone, but they're especially unattractive to women. It is only right to demand fairness in the relationship. If you don't, you have no one to blame but yourself (and more importantly, if you allow it to continue after realizing how unbalanced you've allowed things to become, I suspect you have some serious self-loathing or at least very low self-esteem).
You're probably not going to listen to anyone's advice on this...it sounds like you're pretty far gone. But, I would really encourage you to at least delay the wedding. Think things over. Think about what your life is going to look like in two years, three, when she holds all the power in the relationship and you have no out that doesn't include giving her half your stuff and a bunch of money for as long as she wants to keep taking it from you.
You should realize that your value on the dating market is much higher than you think it is. You don't have to accept a relationship like this. You're a good guy, a generous guy, an honest guy, and a successful guy. You can have your pick of a large variety of women (including women who are younger, prettier, and better behaved than your current situation, if that floats your boat). A woman in her mid-thirties, with kids, should not be behaving this way. She should know better. And, just as importantly, you're exhibiting extremely weak behavior in accepting being treated this badly.
El_Clutch
I agree, but if not, then my alternate suggestion is Pre-nup!
intjpua
I take everything I read in MensRights with a grain of salt, but this is, to some degree, true. Pre-nups are contestable, and occasionally are ignored when the divorce is being judged. Depends on the state, the judge, the lawyers on both sides, and the events leading up to the divorce.
The divorce is usually filed by the woman (an overwhelming majority of divorces are file by women), and if she wants to make life hell, she will claim some form of abuse, cheating, or other violation of the marriage contract, rather than merely "irreconcilable differences". The idea is that because the husband has broken the marriage contract, all the other related contracts are no longer as strongly binding, including prenuptial agreements. It is often the woman's word against the man's, and in civil court it is a tossup how that comes out; you don't need to prove anything "beyond a reasonable doubt", you just have to convince the judge you're the one telling the truth.
Historically, the court system has been more generous to women, particularly women with kids, even when there was doubt of the veracity of her claims. This made sense in days when women were distinctly less able to fend for themselves, and they relied much more on men for their economic wellbeing, and the economic wellbeing of the kids. But, it's become an industry...and some women are participating willingly in it.
It's unfortunate, since it makes some men fearful of marriage because they know men who've been run through that ringer and seen the disastrous effect it has on quality of life, or they've been through it themselves. I'm in my 30s, so some of my friends have experienced it, including a couple of the nicest, gentlest, and most giving, guys I've ever met. One of them is a truly tragic case, and his divorce cost him millions of dollars, even though she's the one that cheated on him multiple times with multiple men. Poor guy was devastated for years after that, and only recently started dating again. It's definitely a rage-inducing story, because I know what kind of guy he his, and I see clearly how it was his kindness and generosity that got him into such a horrible mess.
So, yeah, a pre-nup may not prevent a horrible financial outcome. That's not to say OP shouldn't get one. He definitely should get a pre-nup if he decides to go through with this really bad idea, for the sake of his kids if for no other reason. My spidey-sense is telling me his kids are going to have to pay for their own college, get loans, or get scholarships, because of his reckless blindness in love.
ixmatus
I used to be an AFC too - oddly enough it was Salsa [dancing] that first taught me the "ropes" of socially interacting with women. A woman won't enjoy a dance unless you can lead well, firmly, and be creative. I later began studying PU and saw the huge number of parallels.
@OP: intjpua has it right.
I'm generally not for marriage, even if it's for economic reasons, because people change and circumstances change - being able to move your [emotional] weight around without carrying a truckload of baggage with you is so valuable.
You're in deep but whatever happens you'll be okay in the end!
kaosjester
This makes me sad. When I was reading OP's post, I was halfway to writing something like intjpua, but then I realized that everybody is going to tell him it's the wrong thing to do, but, naively, he is going to try to back out and his fiancee will then change her tune and agree to things until they say their vows. Everything will seem like it was fixed through their reasoning, but once wed she will slowly let her claws sink back in and seize all the power, and he won't realize it until he finds her sleeping with another man. She doesn't find the original poster attractive, and she never will; she is going to find someone else that she wants to be with, though, and will probably end things in heartbreak and with modest alimony.
Good luck, itsatrap123; I know you're going to probably make the wrong decision, and I wish the best of outcomes to you anyway.
ryanman
Fuck that. I was "duped" into a relationship like this. I wasn't in as deep as OP, admittedly. But the second I began changing my life around her - falling into the trap - pieces of the puzzle began to emerge. She compared sex to "a foot massage", we went a couple months without (despite being 19 and in college), not to mention the non-sexual shit.
Point is, I now have a girlfriend who absolutely loves fucking me as much as possible, and is a better person to boot. And I'm not in ultra high demand. Don't settle for fighting for equality, for begging to have your needs met. Don't settle for having hundreds of stupid fights because you're in love. It's not worth it.
Tobygo
"A woman in her mid-thirties, with kids, should not be behaving this way." Awesome quote!
This is a throwaway account so as to not tipoff my SO.
We’re both mid thirties, professional, successful, divorced parents. We’re also engaged to be married pretty soon.
We have what I thought to be a wonderful relationship, lots of talking, bonding, straightforward emotional exchanges, no trust issues, and great, frequent sex.
However, and here is where things take a turn, it has recently come to my attention that the frequent sex part of the equation may have been a ruse. Things have been hectic lately, and I had been getting a weird vibe from her, so I point blank asked her a few things about our sex life, and I don’t like what I heard.
She has sex with me quite often out of a feeling of duty.
She has grown attracted to me, but does not find me “inherently attractive”. I’m not her “type”, apparently. What I am, I think, is safe, as her family wouldn’t be too happy about her seriously dating or heaven forbid marrying her “type”.
She says that she is not a night person, and is too tired when we go to bed to be in the mood.
She says she hopes things will improve in a few years when her kids are older, her job is more stable, etc.
Basically, she wants us to “be more flexible” in our sex life and slow down. If she had her way, she’d be happy with maybe a couple times a week.
Anyway, while I appreciate her honesty, this was quite a blow. My ego is bruised, my self confidence is shaken, and I am more than a bit angry and resentful about her hiding this until now.
I love her, obviously, and I don’t want to end our relationship, so I’m here looking for advice.
I’ve already spent a ridiculous amount of money on our wedding, and we are financially intertwined quite thoroughly. She sold her house and moved into mine.
Also, in case it’s relevant, I work a standard 9-5 job at a Fortune 500 company and make twice what she does. Her job has really flexible hours, no absolute time commitments, and doesn’t require as much attention and energy as mine. She doesn’t like to do housework, so we hired a cleaning service. I love to cook, so I do so something like 5 out of 7 days every week. I also do the dishes because I don’t mind, and actually find it relaxing. She tends to do most of the laundry.
Just fyi, but her idea of compromise was that since I am a more high energy type person (and I am, I can go full bore all day on 6 hours of sleep), that I should take over all kid duties at a certain time of the evening (say 9 pm) so she could go sit in the bath, lay in bed watching movies, or whatever else she wanted to do while I put her kids to bed, go over my kids homework, make lunches for the next day, etc. Yes, after working all day, cooking dinner, and then doing all the dishes for a family of 6.
Anyone have any ideas?
intjpua
You are her "provider". She'll find someone else that turns her on to fuck her once you're married. There have been dozens of askreddit posts from guys just like you, only they're at the end rather than the beginning of the story, and their stories are tragic and occasionally horrible (they lose their house, their kids, their friends, and their dignity, while their ex-wife is fucking other men and enjoying the fruits of putting in a few years with the sap).
She loves your money. She loves that you are easy to control and keep in line because you're polite and a Nice Guy. She loves that you take care of her. But she doesn't love you.
At least she was honest enough to reveal her hand before you became hopelessly intertwined. She obviously believes you're really thoroughly hooked on her (and you probably are; if you weren't you wouldn't even have to ask about this situation; you would have ended it long ago).
Just fyi, but her idea of compromise was that since I am a more high energy type person (and I am, I can go full bore all day on 6 hours of sleep), that I should take over all kid duties at a certain time of the evening (say 9 pm) so she could go sit in the bath, lay in bed watching movies, or whatever else she wanted to do while I put her kids to bed, go over my kids homework, make lunches for the next day, etc. Yes, after working all day, cooking dinner, and then doing all the dishes for a family of 6.
She has successfully turned you into her bitch. This made her dramatically less attracted to you. Women hate weak men. And you are being weak at every turn. You don't have to be an asshole, but you do need to stand up for yourself. Doormats are not attractive to anyone, but they're especially unattractive to women. It is only right to demand fairness in the relationship. If you don't, you have no one to blame but yourself (and more importantly, if you allow it to continue after realizing how unbalanced you've allowed things to become, I suspect you have some serious self-loathing or at least very low self-esteem).
You're probably not going to listen to anyone's advice on this...it sounds like you're pretty far gone. But, I would really encourage you to at least delay the wedding. Think things over. Think about what your life is going to look like in two years, three, when she holds all the power in the relationship and you have no out that doesn't include giving her half your stuff and a bunch of money for as long as she wants to keep taking it from you.
You should realize that your value on the dating market is much higher than you think it is. You don't have to accept a relationship like this. You're a good guy, a generous guy, an honest guy, and a successful guy. You can have your pick of a large variety of women (including women who are younger, prettier, and better behaved than your current situation, if that floats your boat). A woman in her mid-thirties, with kids, should not be behaving this way. She should know better. And, just as importantly, you're exhibiting extremely weak behavior in accepting being treated this badly.
El_Clutch
I agree, but if not, then my alternate suggestion is Pre-nup!
intjpua
I take everything I read in MensRights with a grain of salt, but this is, to some degree, true. Pre-nups are contestable, and occasionally are ignored when the divorce is being judged. Depends on the state, the judge, the lawyers on both sides, and the events leading up to the divorce.
The divorce is usually filed by the woman (an overwhelming majority of divorces are file by women), and if she wants to make life hell, she will claim some form of abuse, cheating, or other violation of the marriage contract, rather than merely "irreconcilable differences". The idea is that because the husband has broken the marriage contract, all the other related contracts are no longer as strongly binding, including prenuptial agreements. It is often the woman's word against the man's, and in civil court it is a tossup how that comes out; you don't need to prove anything "beyond a reasonable doubt", you just have to convince the judge you're the one telling the truth.
Historically, the court system has been more generous to women, particularly women with kids, even when there was doubt of the veracity of her claims. This made sense in days when women were distinctly less able to fend for themselves, and they relied much more on men for their economic wellbeing, and the economic wellbeing of the kids. But, it's become an industry...and some women are participating willingly in it.
It's unfortunate, since it makes some men fearful of marriage because they know men who've been run through that ringer and seen the disastrous effect it has on quality of life, or they've been through it themselves. I'm in my 30s, so some of my friends have experienced it, including a couple of the nicest, gentlest, and most giving, guys I've ever met. One of them is a truly tragic case, and his divorce cost him millions of dollars, even though she's the one that cheated on him multiple times with multiple men. Poor guy was devastated for years after that, and only recently started dating again. It's definitely a rage-inducing story, because I know what kind of guy he his, and I see clearly how it was his kindness and generosity that got him into such a horrible mess.
So, yeah, a pre-nup may not prevent a horrible financial outcome. That's not to say OP shouldn't get one. He definitely should get a pre-nup if he decides to go through with this really bad idea, for the sake of his kids if for no other reason. My spidey-sense is telling me his kids are going to have to pay for their own college, get loans, or get scholarships, because of his reckless blindness in love.
ixmatus
I used to be an AFC too - oddly enough it was Salsa [dancing] that first taught me the "ropes" of socially interacting with women. A woman won't enjoy a dance unless you can lead well, firmly, and be creative. I later began studying PU and saw the huge number of parallels.
@OP: intjpua has it right.
I'm generally not for marriage, even if it's for economic reasons, because people change and circumstances change - being able to move your [emotional] weight around without carrying a truckload of baggage with you is so valuable.
You're in deep but whatever happens you'll be okay in the end!
kaosjester
This makes me sad. When I was reading OP's post, I was halfway to writing something like intjpua, but then I realized that everybody is going to tell him it's the wrong thing to do, but, naively, he is going to try to back out and his fiancee will then change her tune and agree to things until they say their vows. Everything will seem like it was fixed through their reasoning, but once wed she will slowly let her claws sink back in and seize all the power, and he won't realize it until he finds her sleeping with another man. She doesn't find the original poster attractive, and she never will; she is going to find someone else that she wants to be with, though, and will probably end things in heartbreak and with modest alimony.
Good luck, itsatrap123; I know you're going to probably make the wrong decision, and I wish the best of outcomes to you anyway.
ryanman
Fuck that. I was "duped" into a relationship like this. I wasn't in as deep as OP, admittedly. But the second I began changing my life around her - falling into the trap - pieces of the puzzle began to emerge. She compared sex to "a foot massage", we went a couple months without (despite being 19 and in college), not to mention the non-sexual shit.
Point is, I now have a girlfriend who absolutely loves fucking me as much as possible, and is a better person to boot. And I'm not in ultra high demand. Don't settle for fighting for equality, for begging to have your needs met. Don't settle for having hundreds of stupid fights because you're in love. It's not worth it.
Tobygo
"A woman in her mid-thirties, with kids, should not be behaving this way." Awesome quote!
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